Discussion about permission, credit, and making money off creations

Hi great JARRO77 nice see u write here... and u give a good point:

(To me the Mugen is not a War by sites.To me is a collaboration beetween people who really want created good characters for the Passion we all have for this type of things,so relax guys and just spend your time to improve as Creator and as Person

This is the only Game in the World where we able to CREATING EVERY TYPE OF CHARACTERS so just keep creating and having fun)

BetoMC i see now u attack to Yolomate...really?
1:Maybe for his knowledge he have do more then u because of ur knowledge:if u know what i mean.
2:(You shouldn't even be in an argument with big people)....Big people?Only big i know is God... we are just humans and just passengers from life... so me i know humans and small humans that they think are big.U was very offensive to Yolomate.
And if u think 2 complete chars make u big then Chochouryu with so many chars is Giant!

We are here for discussion... and tell are opinion and not make war.

DC VS MARVEL wrote:

Hi great JARRO77 nice see u write here... and u give a good point:

(To me the Mugen is not a War by sites.To me is a collaboration beetween people who really want created good characters for the Passion we all have for this type of things,so relax guys and just spend your time to improve as Creator and as Person

This is the only Game in the World where we able to CREATING EVERY TYPE OF CHARACTERS so just keep creating and having fun)

BetoMC i see now u attack to Yolomate...really?
1:Maybe for his knowledge he have do more then u because of ur knowledge:if u know what i mean.
2:(You shouldn't even be in an argument with big people)....Big people?Only big i know is God... we are just humans and just passengers from life... so me i know humans and small humans that they think are big.U was very offensive to Yolomate.
And if u think 2 complete chars make u big then Chochouryu with so many chars is Giant!

We are here for discussion... and tell are opinion and not make war.

This is a big fire. The more wood you throw, the more it will burn.

Big people means adults. He is not even a content creator to give his opinion. In fact, he didn't even try to give an opinion, he made fun of me and belittled my feelings.

If you are having difficulty understanding because of the language barrier, I will keep you out of the discussion. You are not helping either side.

BetoMC only thing i want is all we have a calm discussion.
And even if i dont agree in all... i do respect all opinions... because somewhere both sides i believe they have their own right.

I like that u have feelings and hope see them maybe in a 3rd char of u.

Have a nice afternoon.

I not used sarcasm!! I only see a poor man...

yolomate wrote:

I not used sarcasm!! I only see a poor man...

For God's sake, stop being cynical. You should think that in this discussion, two creators decided to go private. I was wondering, what do you get out of it.

One of two things: Do you want to piss me off, or is someone very low IQ.

Guys... Can everytime make a drama for different opinions?character, edit, pay, not pay, publish, private... Go away from pc and stop dramas
Stop this discussion... Everyone has got his point of view
Create, try to build something solid on mugen, respect the other opinions and respect rules
Have passion on mugen and stop

Shining wrote:

Guys... Can everytime make a drama for different opinions?character, edit, pay, not pay, publish, private... Go away from pc and stop dramas
Stop this discussion... Everyone has got his point of view
Create, try to build something solid on mugen, respect the other opinions and respect rules
Have passion on mugen and stop

There were 7 pages. And it got nowhere.

I think the answer about this is simple (release your work or not)… ..is your choice., If you want to share something on the internet you can't control it.
I mean people always have an excuse to "work" on your character.
And  "property of Capcom or marvel or dc" excuse always be there. We can't fight against it.
I like mugen and I found a lots of olds and new creators in the way, I have now the authorization to work on chars and sprites of creators like intermission, magus, and a lot of old creators. With that I am making my games with no problems.
When I joined MMV years ago I help volzilla in the forum releasing in every celebration a char, great days, but with all the problems I just stop releasing stuff and continue working on my projects.
I always watch the forums to see how the people grow and in this place I can see a lot potentials, like Renato, skhsato123 and others even yolomate with his palettes.
I don't like lazy works, if you take and edit somebody work at least make something better, but is my opinion. I can't change the people mind and his act, and if you need to improve do it with the opensource chars around…. .
So I prefer to enjoy my works with my friends, I chose to become private. And I share videos of my works for the people that enjoy mugen.
Maybe some day we can back again but for now lets just be happy wit this.









THIS DEADPOOL IS NOT FROM THE NAVS KING

This community respect all opinions
Have fun with mugen

It is best to respect the will of the creator. They are the ones providing mostly free high-quality work that takes great time, effort, energy, talent and so on to produce. Not only do the really good creators franken-sprite a lot of moves, they also often incorporate new sprites, hand-drawn original details, creative moves, custom effects and etc to the capcom sprites. I can't believe someone would even compare Capcom's Thor helper with what like 10-15 sprites to Loganir's Thor with hundreds of sprites not to mention the amazing quality of the character.

"But they don't ask permission from capcom" argument falls apart b/c Capcom have for a long time been consented to allowing fan art as long as not for profit. Anyone can easily google search capcom's fans art policy or open source policy as long as they follow capcom's other stipulations in addition to not for profit like nothing obscene. So Capcom has already given permission provided that the fan art meet their critera.

Furthermore Capcom and their artists who made the sprites have been paid lol. We are talking about 2d sprites from games that are in a lot of cases 2 decades plus old. I remember playing the Xmen vs SF in arcades. So Capcom, Marvel etc. see the value in fan art advertising and marketing their products/characters from old games that have already made them a bunch a money. For them it is a win/win as long as their conditions are met, namely not for profit.

I'm already longer than I wished to be but paetron allows people to financailly support artist not for a specific copyrighted character but for their work as artist and creators. I think that is very legal, fair, and legitimate, but privately someone can pay for anything they want without raising the suspicions of the big corporations.

Just to briefy finish I will never understand some in this community who bites the hand that feeds them. Creators should be the ones to set the standards for the community b/c without them their is no community. I personally don't think asking for permission is something hard or burdensome. Back in the day a lot of partnerships were formed when the established and experience creator would take someone inexperience but had passion and a strong work ethic and talent and helped them become better.

metamutant wrote:

It is best to respect the will of the creator. They are the ones providing mostly free high-quality work that takes great time, effort, energy, talent and so on to produce.  Not only do the really good creators franken-sprite a lot of moves, they also often incorporate new sprites, hand-drawn original details, creative moves, custom effects and etc to the capcom sprites. I can't believe someone would even compare Capcom's Thor helper with what like 10-15 sprites to Loganir's Thor with hundreds of sprites not to mention the amazing quality of the character.

"But they don't ask permission from capcom" argument falls apart b/c Capcom have for a long time been consented to allowing fan art as long as not for profit. Anyone can easily google search capcom's fans art policy or open source policy as long as they follow capcom's other stipulations in addition to not for profit like nothing obscene. So Capcom has already given permission provided that  the fan art meet their critera.

Furthermore Capcom and their artists who made the sprites have been paid lol. We are talking about 2d sprites from games that are in a lot of cases 2 decades plus old. I remember playing the Xmen vs SF in arcades. So Capcom, Marvel etc. see the value in fan art advertising and marketing their products/characters from old games that have already made them a bunch a money. For them it is a win/win as long as their conditions are met, namely not for profit.

I'm already longer than I wished to be but paetron allows people to financailly support artist not for a specific copyrighted character but for their work as artist and creators. I think that is very legal, fair, and legitimate, but privately someone can pay for anything they want without raising the suspicions of the big corporations.

Just to briefy finish I will never understand some in this community who bites the hand that feeds them. Creators should be the ones to set the standards for the community b/c without them their is no community. I personally don't think asking for permission is something hard or burdensome. Back in the day a lot of partnerships were formed when the established and experience creator would take someone inexperience but had passion and a strong work ethic and talent and helped them become better.

This is quite consistent

logansam wrote:

I think the answer about this is simple (release your work or not)… ..is your choice., If you want to share something on the internet you can't control it.
I mean people always have an excuse to "work" on your character.
And  "property of Capcom or marvel or dc" excuse always be there. We can't fight against it.

thats the best take devout of emotions from a creator who gone private ive seen so far

logansam wrote:

"But they don't ask permission from capcom" argument falls apart b/c Capcom have for a long time been consented to allowing fan art as long as not for profit. Anyone can easily google search capcom's fans art policy or open source policy as long as they follow capcom's other stipulations in addition to not for profit like nothing obscene. So Capcom has already given permission provided that the fan art meet their critera.

good point. but there are still two sides. if we thinking from legal side, mugen authors have no legal or monetization rights on these works (patreon is a good choice though)
BUT, if we are talking from humane point, the one that seem to be brought up every time, well, i would say authors are also trying to break the unspoken rules on which this free community was build and was allowed to exist in the first place. and most important, they are also trying to limit other peoples creative freedom, control their actions, the freedom that was provided to them in the beggining, as a gesture of goodwill. that, if we are talking strictly "humane" and "respect others equally" side. i can see that we probably would never agree on this, but, either way, there is a gigantic argument there, which doesnt just "fall apart".

but i can somewhat understand both sides, even though i dont support it, and, going private is a viable choice, again, persons freedom to do what he wants in a free community. and if someone doesnt agree with this choice, they should not make a problem out of it in any case, even if the person just an a** who did for the sole purpose to tease people. but blaiming community for decisions of these authors to leave, accusing members of "stealing", insults, overall toxic enviroment that is created for those people, young authors who are just trying their hand in creative mugen work, and genuinly just want to create something they always wanted to see in the game, and then share it with like-minded people (im not talking about credit-stealers here), attacking those people, demand that they follow some highly questionble "rules", thats where it becomes a problem for me

again, not that we would agree on this, and im not trying to convince anybody anymore, seeing how its 7 pages and barely anyone position was changed and already typed in this topic worthy of an essay. but there is an argument, as Ilu said, 20+ years and counting and probably will go on as long as this community is active. my only hope is that just attacks, toxic behavior and forceful imposing of "rules" will stop, and everyone just stays with their point of view and freely do what they want, without trying to interfere or control the actions of others

All this because I'm working on doc ock for every one to use lol

crosspotts1.0 wrote:

All this because I'm working on doc ock for every one to use  lol

If I remember correctly those sprites came from someone named x-boy! There was a silver surfer to that he did; I think the first one for mugen. I'm not sure but I believe verz is not the original creator of those sprites for Doc Ock; unless he goes by x-boy He might have gotten permission to continue the wip however. about 70% of those animations were up online on the original web page. I think it came from IMT mugen.

Not sure if X-boy is still active, last i heard was at IMT mugen. He might be retired?! You could ask him for those sprites or even get more newer animations and collaborate maybe?

Anyway i don't think there's any harm in having multiple versions of doc ock by multiple creators. There's many versions of captain america and so on.

I'm curious to see alternatives. Go for it!