Discussion about permission, credit, and making money off creations

Here is all you need to know about MUGEN (from Elecbyte directly):
Source: http://www.elecbyte.com/mugendocs/mugen.html
M.U.G.E.N is free for non-commercial use. You can read the full license text in the README file.


Here is what you need to know about fan art:
Source: https://jomosthompson.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/does-fan-art-violate-copyright/
Fan art is a drawing based on a character, costume, or location that is made without permission by the original creator. The ability to create fan art is vital to comic artists both as a means of practicing to improve skill, but also to make money at conventions by drawing commissions for fans.

The practice is common, but is it legal? The short answer is a qualified maybe, which is about as good as you can get from a lawyer without specific facts. I think most artists are safe, but each situation will be different.


My personal thoughts and knowledge:
I have been in MUGEN since the beginning, and seen most of the "issues" that have happened throughout the years. I personally saw and read the messages back in the day between mugen creators and companies such as DC Comics, Marvel Comics, and Capcom. All companies stated close to the same thing "As long as it is fan art, and you are not making profit off our material we are OK with it".


With all this being said I personally am "OK" (heavy quotations there) with someone charging for these type of things within the mugen community

1. Backing your favorite creator (patreon, and donate)
-you are helping your favorite creator continue working on the project(s) they are working on
-may get other benefits from this such as early releases, and private content from the creator
2. Coder doing custom work on a character or stage by request for $$$
-you are paying for actual work completed
3. Spriter creating new sprites or updated sprites by request for $$$
-you are paying for actual work completed (fan art)
4. Programmer creating an add on for a game by request for $$$ (ex. mugenhook, mugen story mode, etc)
-you are paying for actual work completed

As you can see there are plenty of ways that you "could" make a living off your hobby without going into breaking copy-write rules, and/or getting sued. As long as you are charging for actual work you are doing.

Don't charge for "X" character that you created a while ago but decided to keep private for whatever reason.

It's the best answer I've heard so far

BigPimp wrote:

Splash wrote:

*Mugen is free and should not be traded. Ok this is true. You cannot collect multiple characters in a

screenpack and sell. This is clear to me.


I could never understand this:


*However, if I want to pay someone to edit a character or a sprite is it illegal?


*  I believe that many characters only exist because they were paid for and

distributed to everyone. This is ilegal? A exemple: The Billy Blue Ranger that Im coding, the sprites of Balthazar were comissioned...


would like to have a healthy discussion about it, I just want to resolve that doubt.

you can, obviously, unofficially just like some people getting bribes
but you guys need to realise that capcom or marvel have legal power to actually swoop down on any creators and shut down all kind of things we are making with their property. even without person directly getting money from it. they just dont do it, because they dont bother with it, and they  view this community as a free creative space, not business. if creators were getting money and selling this stuff, this community wouldve been shut down sooner or later

there were real cases of such things happening. there was a person who was making animated shorts "X-men: danger room protocols". he wasnt directly making any money from it, just set up a patreon to "help his creative work". and all he did is used likeness of x-men characters. marvel swooped in and shut down his project, just because it was getting to much traction and some indirect monetization was in place

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-danger-room-protocols-shut-down-after-one-episode/#:~:text=%22X%2DMen%3A%20Danger%20Room,to%20legal%20pressure%20from%20Marvel.

no imagine you not only using likeness, but also copyrighter work (sprites) from capcom games. capcom been know to shut down community things also, like recently they craked down on the makers of "lewd" mods of their characters.

@somm. if you really think that creator like me who edited urien sprites to look like sinister, or creator like verz who put guile upper body and cap america legs together and edited them to look like dr.octopus can seriously call the result as solely "their" work, you are delusional. and creators who do that need to have their egos and reality checked. and then further forbiding someone from the same free community to edit, when they themselves just edited capcom sprites without any premission, or crediting the original authors (believe it or not, those sprites didnt grow on trees, they were made by real people also), is just the pinnacle of hypocrisy

Bud, I will save myself not making this bigger than it should because you seems kind mad about the topic.

Say "our work" or "my work" just doesnt mean the same I as "I own it".
Just mean *I* or *I together with others members* worked in something.
Also, is not saying it was completely/solely made the mentioned people.
You are just taking the thing as serious as the people who acts like "owns the character". And you know about who Im talking

And just for clarify, Im not supporting any case of "private charater" or "selling mugen stuff" by saying YEAH its is their work. But this is a whole new topic.

Getting some good points there BP, if only all great creators such as yourself has this kind of mindset, mugen world would be filled with more characters that we all love and dream to see in a fighting game.

Imagine all creators would be getting money out of making a character​, firstly it's nice to earn money from the effort you put in your works, but we have to put in mind that we do not have an official permission to use any of Capcom's Sprites and design, we just straight up rip them from their games and modified them to create new look so we can enjoy a dreamy match. So in conclusion you can have money but if capcom wants to sue mugen community they can do it anytime for reasons BP already have spoken of but they won't because again as BP said, we are low/off the radar to being trendy on media platforms. And if all creators profit from mugen then that scenario will definitely be close to possible.

candido159 wrote:

Getting some good points there BP, if only all great creators such as yourself has this kind of mindset, mugen world would be filled with more characters that we all love and dream to see in a fighting game.

Imagine all creators would be getting money out of making a character​, firstly it's nice to earn money from the effort you put in your works, but we have to put in mind that we do not have an official permission to use any of Capcom's Sprites and design, we just straight up rip them from their games and modified them to create new look so we can enjoy a dreamy match. So in conclusion you can have money but if capcom wants to sue mugen community they can do it anytime for reasons BP already have spoken of but they won't because again as BP said, we are low/off the radar to being trendy on media platforms. And if all creators profit from mugen then that scenario will definitely be close to possible.

Well, by what Thatguy and BigPump said. Capcom can only sue the ones who are making money by it (I would say "directly making money" but BigPimp mentioned a case where a fan who are making money "indirectly" also have problems so :v)

candido159 wrote:

Getting some good points there BP, if only all great creators such as yourself has this kind of mindset, mugen world would be filled with more characters that we all love and dream to see in a fighting game.

Imagine all creators would be getting money out of making a character​, firstly it's nice to earn money from the effort you put in your works, but we have to put in mind that we do not have an official permission to use any of Capcom's Sprites and design, we just straight up rip them from their games and modified them to create new look so we can enjoy a dreamy match. So in conclusion you can have money but if capcom wants to sue mugen community they can do it anytime for reasons BP already have spoken of but they won't because again as BP said, we are low/off the radar to being trendy on media platforms. And if all creators profit from mugen then that scenario will definitely be close to possible.

No one will ever think the same. It is this mindset that you must have. If you want something from someone, respect your criteria. Simple.

Somm wrote:

candido159 wrote:

Getting some good points there BP, if only all great creators such as yourself has this kind of mindset, mugen world would be filled with more characters that we all love and dream to see in a fighting game.

Imagine all creators would be getting money out of making a character​, firstly it's nice to earn money from the effort you put in your works, but we have to put in mind that we do not have an official permission to use any of Capcom's Sprites and design, we just straight up rip them from their games and modified them to create new look so we can enjoy a dreamy match. So in conclusion you can have money but if capcom wants to sue mugen community they can do it anytime for reasons BP already have spoken of but they won't because again as BP said, we are low/off the radar to being trendy on media platforms. And if all creators profit from mugen then that scenario will definitely be close to possible.

Well, by what Thatguy and BigPump said. Capcom can only sue the ones who are making money by it (I would say "directly making money" but BigPimp mentioned a case where a fan who are making money "indirectly" also have problems so :v)

thatguy is right. It works the way he said it. It rains commissions on deviantart before and there is no problem.

The problem with the x-men is that they created an animated series. Even if they justify that there is no profit, you cannot. Mugen is a much smaller thing. Almost microscopic.

Somm wrote:

Bud, I will save myself not making this bigger than it should because you seems kind mad about the topic.

Say "our work" or "my work" just doesnt mean the same I as "I own it".
Just mean *I* or *I together with others members* worked in something.
Also, is not saying it was completely/solely made the mentioned people.
You are just taking the thing as serious as the people who acts like "owns the character". And you know about who Im talking

And just for clarify, Im not supporting any case of "private charater" or "selling mugen stuff" by saying YEAH its is their work. But this is a whole new topic.

friend, its not about words used
i also say "my character" when talking about shocker or deathstrike or sinister, even though there are even a real co-creator for every mentioned character with me, its just quicker to say
its the fact that those "creators" consider themselves to be owners enough to forbid someone to make changes to these characters
and also that some people think that charging money for edited capcom owned sprites (initial example we discussed) is something that can be done

thats the point. and also im not mad, why would i be? i just passionate as with any discussion that is interesting
i dont think i insulted or pressured anyone here, if i did, im sorry

to the point that capcom or marvel can swoop down on someone who is making money indirectly with use of their work or owned creative property. they actually can take legal action against someone who isnt making any money from it at all, they just choose not to

candido159 wrote:

Getting some good points there BP, if only all great creators such as yourself has this kind of mindset, mugen world would be filled with more characters that we all love and dream to see in a fighting game.

Imagine all creators would be getting money out of making a character​, firstly it's nice to earn money from the effort you put in your works, but we have to put in mind that we do not have an official permission to use any of Capcom's Sprites and design, we just straight up rip them from their games and modified them to create new look so we can enjoy a dreamy match. So in conclusion you can have money but if capcom wants to sue mugen community they can do it anytime for reasons BP already have spoken of but they won't because again as BP said, we are low/off the radar to being trendy on media platforms. And if all creators profit from mugen then that scenario will definitely be close to possible.

exactly, Candido
i mean Beto is saying its animated series vs microscopic mugen, and that its somehow makes a difference
but its just scale, doesnt change the substance of the situation at all. its exactly the same. even less with that youtube creator, since he only used likeness. and we are using likeness AND actual substantial work in the form of ripped sprites

@Beto and those were animated 3d shorts, with 4 min run time for the episode of just 1 action sequence, nothing to the point of "animated series". not that it would make any difference in any case

again, capcom or marvel can take legal action against any unsanctioned use of their work, profitable or not, they just choose not to

Hello, well I do not know how to raise this but I think it would be best to go straight to the point, I do not know if they had noticed that the situation regarding copyright has been getting worse over the last few years, to the degree of who have been trying to put lawsuits on cosplayers who profit from characters from other companies ... My point is that the time will come when the mugen community draws the attention of the companies, if they start to profit from this hobby, we will only cause problems. It is very respectable that they want to support their favorite authors, it is a personal decision, but the time will come when companies turn their heads to the low community and demand that we respect their work.


Hola, bueno no se como plantear esto pero creo que lo mejor sera ir directo al grano, no se si se habian percatado de que la situacion de respecto a los derechos de autor ha ido empeorando a lo largo de los ultimos años,al grado de que han estado intentando poner demandas a cosplayers que lucran con personajes de otras compañias...Mi punto es que llegara el momento en que la comunidad mugen llame la atencion de las compañias, si se comienza a lucrar con este hobby, solo acarrearemos problemas. Es muy respetable que quieran dar soporte a sus autores favoritos, es una decision personal,pero llegara el momento en que las empresas voltean la cabeza a la comunidad mugen y exigan que respetemos su trabajo.

Yes the dark day of copyright owner may come and try to take us little community out to paster so don't charge for something that should be free make sure we make no money from this or mugen multiverse this entire hobby will be wiped out with a law suit hell I get scared when I see Nintendo characters being made they could copy right claim all likeness of their characters

Hi everyone.Hope all u are fine and healthy.
My bad english doesnt help me much to understand all u say...but i will agree with Yolomate:
(For me Mugen is free,somepepople sales a char or sprites is total opposite original idea Mugen...this is a hobby cmon! if you wanna money and you are a amazing creator of sprites go to Capcom, Nintendo and says I need a job etc etc.)
Also i will agree with CARNAGE777:
(Hello, well I do not know how to raise this but I think it would be best to go straight to the point, I do not know if they had noticed that the situation regarding copyright has been getting worse over the last few years, to the degree of who have been trying to put lawsuits on cosplayers who profit from characters from other companies ... My point is that the time will come when the mugen community draws the attention of the companies, if they start to profit from this hobby, we will only cause problems. It is very respectable that they want to support their favorite authors, it is a personal decision, but the time will come when companies turn their heads to the low community and demand that we respect their work.)
So i believe soon in time companies will take down our hobby... then no more mugen pleasure of our favorite chars... no nothing.all will END.
Then i want to know how will feel some persons who they think that owns the chars(we own nothing from those chars).
We should enjoy our hobby in low profile and all be happy...before ends forever.
Will be sad to see mugen hobby ends.
Forgine my english.I respect all opinions... and just told mine.

I think you did a great job not doing good English you did fine
and so every one know I don't charge for my sprites and never will
if I do an edit for you just credit me that's all I want everything is free to use just give credit
I love you all and may the infinite possibilities of mugen never end

Hi crosspotts1.0 and tnx. To credit u or anyone else... its must or better say respect.
If mugen will end or not... i believe its up to us... of how will use our hobby.
Are we gonna use it as selfish... as greedy... and gonna see it end? Or wise... low profile... share eachother... and keep it alive and see more progress and we all enjoy it?
Its up to us.
OOhh crosspotts1.0 i really tnx u for ur chars.
This of what we have here is amazing... Ryu vs Scorpion WOW... Superman vs Thor WOW... and more.
Enjoy our hobby friends and dont turn eyes(companies) on ur hobby.
-Life is short... do not make it shorter-

the culprit of the mugen's decline is not who makes commissions. And yes, anyone who disrespects the will of closed source creators. MMV is one of the places that most created problems with creators.

Ax with loganir and verz. Someone named Carp who chased Logasan with mediocre edits on his characters.

Zvitor no longer makes characters for mugen. And the illusionist, it took 6 years to release the night wing, for that reason too. Perhaps it is a miracle that he shared. So let's stop this crying and take the blame. Don't play with others.

But I admit, it has improved a lot here. Don't go wrong again.

Whoever is a creator, does what is best for himself. Share, keep private, do patreon ... He cannot be forced to do the will of others.