Discussion about permission, credit, and making money off creations

crosspotts1.0 wrote:

I just hate it when private creators post videos and show off things and then tell us no your not getting it none of you are because we made it you don't deserve to play it

Longnair Thor was an edit of capcom Thor helper character so again don't try to claim ownership on something you have no right to own

And BP I edited your sinister just the specials attack pal just made them pinker with some purple for my own use just letting you know lol but again it's that easy to talk to a creator to let them know now honestly I didn't have to because it's personal use but that's also how I'd go about asking if he was OK with me releasing this edit my name wouldn't replace anything because its jus a pal edit not sprites or code but with my sprite swaps that I have done you can see that all the credit goes to who made the original and my name is last it's that easy to credit people

Loganir edited capcom's thor ....


He did a complete character, sprite, per sprite. The fact that he uses bases does not make the job easy. This is another argument that will fall apart. If it's a simple edit, why don't you do it?

I would love for to loganir, show your characters ready, in a video and say that it is private too.

I wish Gladiacloud could of made Thor! That would be awesome!

O Ilusionista wrote:

And I decided to turn some of my works "private" too - some will be share only with some closer friends, some will remain only with me.

sad to hear that, Ilu. cant really say that i understand it, but its your choice

Has mugen changed? I mean like O released Nightwing and no one is editing it right?

If so then creators should reconsider to go back doing such.

But I really don't know if the community changed. Still I thank all creators that came back and release something during the pandemic, it was one awful year and mugen was helping us/me feel better by enjoying all the new characters.

I agree with Ilusionista that most people think they're improving something, when in fact, they're making it worse.... like 80% of people have no idea why a creation is better or worse than another.

Serious question, does anyone know why a -10 jab is bad?, or why a "puppet-tool" style of animation for fighting game characters is bad?... if you don't know the reason, or don't even know what I'm talking about... then you're probably part of that 80%, but worry not, there's no shame in not knowing any of this, as a hobby it's expected. The point is, I know where Ilusionista is coming from, if someone can't discern something this basic (no need to be a creator to know this really), then it's very possible for a worse creation to get more attention, and getting the spotlight for something with less investment can lead to the frustration of someone who invested far more on it.

The investment also differs vastly from one creation to another.
Someone who edits headswaps, recolors and adds a few clothes here and there (IE: cable/psylocke/urien/whatever edit) will put less effort than someone who edits and changes the build of a char, likewise, someone who changes the build of a character but only copies key poses or joins legs with upper bodies (IE: wonderwoman/Dr Ock) will put less effort than someone who actually designs a whole fighting character from the ground (IE: Dragonclaw). And this isn't even the top, some people go further than that. I can think in just 2 guys who created their own fully original MUGEN game by themselves, AND THEY SELL IT (in ikemen IIRC), different effort = different level of emotional investment.

I encourage people to work stuff completely from the ground, but I also understand that Mugen survives on reused assets and asking this from EVERYONE is simply impossible, newbies or even veteran members will hardly have the knowledge, time or sheer will to work something completely from scratch, is nothing easy, in recent years I've charged to create some stuff, sometimes I find people telling me that the prices are high for a "simple" thing they want, and by telling me this I can safely say that they have no idea of what "working something from the ground" truly means.

... So editing from others is the only thing they know. While I see nothing wrong with this, common courtesy is give people their proper credit, something that anyone who's rational enough seems to agree with so far in this topic, GJ.

Along the years I've seen a few people deleting my author name from a creation and others giving the credit to some rando (not frequent, but happens). Even nowadays, once in a while, a char pops-up using hella-old VFX created by me, they're scattered around internet, and ppl probably don't have the slightest idea that they're mine because they found it somewhere else. I want to point that my usable custom stuff is actually mine, I own it... but I won't make a fuss about old VFXs, which might as well be selling in packages for vid editors and DMCA anyone who's giving them freely and hurts my sales.

But as a creator, ultimately my goal is to have my world come to life and tell its story, so I probably wouldn't be angry if people use my stuff, as long as I get proper credit and don't try to claim it as their own, it would help gaining traction, not hinder it. I can't talk for all creators obviously, but several seem to have a similar way of thinking, now that I frequently visit some art communities with actual professionals in them, linking to them is beneficial for their career, SO DON'T FORGET CREDITS, EVEN IF IT'S SOME RANDOM THING YOU FIND ON SOME OBSCURE CORNER OF INTERNET THAT YOU WILL USE.

TL;DR: It's all matter of perspective.

Damn I forgot about vfx to even credit people who have made them sad thing is if you show me one I won't know who made it but I think the person who made those cool vfxs should be credited also but no one ever dose

Friends, you are all missing one small point. In fact, even copyright infringement does not go unnoticed. Take for example the most famous character who has been edited many times. Superman New 52 from Logansam. I've seen some silly versions of this character, cheap imitations, but the original is always the best creation. I've seen someone edit my Doctor Strange, but I don't care. The society knows that the authors of the character are Arkady, Angelus and Volz. I remember the conflict between Loganir and Ax... But I didn't remember the edit character that caused it. Only the excellent Cyclops performed by Loganir. That's all. I don't know how good I am at getting my point across to you, but I want you to understand. The talent of real authors cannot be overshadowed. There is no point in fighting the mills. Yes, mentioning the original creator is welcome, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a particular person who created the character / arena.

A striking example is happening right now. Jarro has asked for my permission to edit Spider-Carnage. I support any improvements, but even if not... It was Young Samurai and I who created the original Spider Carnage and brought it to Mugen. I know that, and that's enough for me. And I understand just as well that there are people who don't care who Angelus_Sileverhead is. They just want a character. Others just want to edit it. It is necessary to come to terms with this corny.

I am sincerely sorry when some authors go into privacy. Because I can no longer enjoy their work. Because of immature minds, which, in fact, do not care, true connoisseurs suffer. Do you really think that people who create simple edits will worry about the retirement of a genius coder or spriter? No, they won't. Only those who treated the author's work with respect will suffer, because they have closely followed the progress of each of his projects for many years.

candido159 wrote:

Has mugen changed? I mean like O released Nightwing and no one is editing it right?

its just a matter of time. while this community is still somewhat active and works and tools are publicly available, people will be editing

the only way for those authors to come back, is to accept that its normal. and that they cant control other people, nor should they
but it seems they made up their minds, so i doubt we will ever see that happening (but hopefully, im wrong on that last part)

More good creator now in this discussion... WOW. It is honor for me.

Angelus_Silverhead(Superman New 52 from Logansam. I've seen some silly versions of this character).
Yes many touch chars with no reason.... i mean that point is if an edit /update will happen then must be for improve the char and not destroy the char.

One example of mine is: I did an edit/update of JARRO77 Mephisto also i did fix an issue... and make separate palette... i did send to JARRO77 and cause i did send the wrong file that was the tester with wrong palettes(his sounds angry or i dont know what...sure not possitive).So by this he answer me that he dont like some edits i did and he will make his own edit.So he did it and also fix the issue i solve for him. But never mugen funs got the separate color version i did.Some ask private to send them but i never release nowhere because of respect to JARRO77. From other side of the coin... i dont feel so nice that others cant have separate color version.I think its wrong to others not have it... but also i respect the creator.
So coin have 2sides sadly.
(With big respect to JARRO7 and i do love what he create.No offense)and forgive my english that maybe gives some misunderstood points.

Hope this is my last message in this discussion...so:
1:Respect to the mugen creator - 100%.
2:If edit/update happens must credit Authors and not delete their name - 100%.
3:For number 2 need to ask permission from mugen creator for respect... but some maybe refuse to give u permission(for something they even didn ask for it from DC/MARVEL/CAPCOM and more.)So as we say to my country this point its: double edged sword 50/50%.

This will be an ever ending discussion.

Again my honor to be among so great creators.

DC VS MARVEL wrote:

More good creator now in this discussion... WOW. It is honor for me.

Angelus_Silverhead(Superman New 52 from Logansam. I've seen some silly versions of this character).
Yes many touch chars with no reason.... i mean that point is if an edit /update will happen then must be for improve the char and not destroy the char.

One example of mine is: I did an edit/update of JARRO77 Mephisto also i did fix an issue... and make separate palette... i did send to JARRO77 and cause i did send the wrong file that was the tester with wrong palettes(his sounds angry or i dont know what...sure not possitive).So by this he answer me that he dont like some edits i did and he will make his own edit.So he did it and also fix the issue i solve for him. But never mugen funs got the separate color version i did.Some ask private to send them but i never release nowhere because of respect to JARRO77. From other side of the coin... i dont feel so nice that others cant have separate color version.I think its wrong to others not have it... but also i respect the creator.
So coin have 2sides sadly.
(With big respect to JARRO7 and i do love what he create.No offense)and forgive my english that maybe gives some misunderstood points.

Hope this is my last message in this discussion...so:
1:Respect to the mugen creator - 100%.
2:If edit/update happens must credit Authors and not delete their name - 100%.
3:For number 2 need to ask permission from mugen creator for respect... but some maybe refuse to give u permission(for something they even didn ask for it from DC/MARVEL/CAPCOM and more.)So as we say to my country this point its: double edged sword 50/50%.

This will be an ever ending discussion.

Again my honor to be among so great creators.

It seems that you have a limit on the reasoning and only see things to some extent. The copyright of the characters belongs to the companies to which the characters belong. But work, time invested, creativity .... They only belong to the creator. And he is the author of his own work, yes.

I am very sad, with the excuses you create, to conflict with creators.

I am also a creator. And one of "my characters" was very successful. His video was watched 26,000 times. On my link, there were more than 5,000 downloads.

I struggled a lot to maintain the peculiarity of my characters but I couldn't. People say, they don't belong to me. This forced me to become a private breeder and work with a small group of friends and collaborators. Apparently it is a way of no return.

Hi BetoMC
Because of my bad english maybe not all are clear of what i say.
I dont conflict with any creator... but i guess u read what u like to read.Anyway atleast i didnt release any edit/update instead of others that do in many sites without permission.So if u want to attack to someone and be mad then try to find those who release and even delete authors names.
Because i dont agree in everything doesnt mean that i dont respect.If some of u like to tell to others what to do... i feel very sorry.

Nice that u and ur char video got those numbers and i hope will double this number.

Also im sad of few very close minds that think they are someone or belongs things... were its not.
See we all are sad in some point.

Ohh and good exaple of good creator and same time openmind guy that im big fun of him from past that others said things for him like ohh he never complete his chars and more things... is the great Chochuryu... i have lose the count of how many chars he create.

Nice to have message from u BetoMC even if it wasnt so friedly.
Be well.

" a private breeder..."why? only for a thing with bytes and sprites???that no is real in the world! no is a real baby or a real dog..is a char, a creation only for fun, no is a real bird!!!.
Chochuryu,Lessard,Zvitor, Ghost Rider and much others creators are open mind and not close mind and not used "a small group of friends and collaborators..."

yolomate wrote:

" a private breeder..."why? only for a thing with bytes and sprites???that no is real  in the world! no is a real baby or a real dog..is a char, a creation only for fun, no is a real bird!!!.
Chochuryu,Lessard,Zvitor, Ghost Rider and much others creators are open mind and not close mind and not used "a small group of friends and collaborators..."

If you read the discussions clearly, there isn't any problem regarding private works. It's their work so let them be, no need to disrespect them any further.

Hey guys if you remember Robson some years ago used my Overdose Superman as base to make his own Kang and onestly looks very bad because he don't put any effort on the char..... he used too my specials and hypers i was very angry with him.... but the same day i say to him now show me you are a REAL CREATOR and try to improve your char!! try to make mix of bases and other things to give the 100% respect to your Kang



He update his Kang and did a good job then you know Robson improved alot as Creator. I considerer a friend of mine really a good person. To me Mugen Change in these years and now is almost normal take other chars and edit without permission..... this is bad but this is what happen most of the time



I see other chars made by me used in some very bad Sprite Swap on Mugen Archive.... i'm not happy with that but i can't do nothing..... The People know I'M THE REAL CREATOR of that characters personally i have always ask permission to use someone else work,also i update alot of chars in these years to help creators to grow up



I have always do this in my FREE TIME and to me Mugen is a Hobby. At this point i think IF YOU REALLY LOVE MUGEN AND YOU LOVE CREATING CHARACTERS just stop to make drama or be disappointed because this will not help the Mugen Community



If you really LOVE MUGEN just be a Creator who give the 100% to make great chars,help people with constructive feedback and try to help people with update chars. In this way you give a solid contribute to mugen world and inspire people to creating chars and make good things



To me the Mugen is not a War by sites.To me is a collaboration beetween people who really want created good characters for the Passion we all have for this type of things,so relax guys and just spend your time to improve as Creator and as Person



This is the only Game in the World where we able to CREATING EVERY TYPE OF CHARACTERS so just keep creating and having fun!!!!!!!

yolomate wrote:

" a private breeder..."why? only for a thing with bytes and sprites???that no is real  in the world! no is a real baby or a real dog..is a char, a creation only for fun, no is a real bird!!!.
Chochuryu,Lessard,Zvitor, Ghost Rider and much others creators are open mind and not close mind and not used "a small group of friends and collaborators..."

I have already contributed two complete characters. This is too much. You have done little. Your sarcasm doesn't hit me. You shouldn't even be in an argument with big people, because you don't know anything.

As for those people you mentored, I'm not them. I have my own identity and choose what is best for me.