Feedback, Comments, & Criticism

I thought this would be a proper subject for a mugen discussion. What are your thoughts on this matter?

Here's my opinion using some forum references...

Laharl wrote:

"nice char +1 posts help no one" it makes them think they are doing a good job when they have work to do. Keep that in mind.

At times it may have nothing to do with that but instead members could be posting "nice char" because they just happen to like a fighter, regardless of how buggy or incomplete it may be. Granted everyone appreciates a complete creation more than an incomplete one; though again it is likely just an admiration of their favorite character in mugen form. Not everyone's post is a review but at times it can be just a simple comment or an appreciation statement for just having shared something.

Narrow minded suggestions like this can get tiring I wouldn't recommend this on any forum.

metamutant wrote:

First of all it doesn't matter if its an alpha or whatever because they are only mostly head swaps. You can't give somewhere constructive criticism when all he or she did was use someone's else coding, sprites, sounds, etc, and didn't change anything mostly except the head in the case of Speedy and barely anything else in the case of Baron Red Skrull Strucker.

People should be able to tell the truth about how a character actual is. It doesn't do this creator any favors to sugar coat or outright lie about all the problems arising from just resizing a couple of sprites and doing a head swap to claim another creation as your own. This is not a decent release, it is however, taking all the credit for mostly other's people work.

Honest feedback is good and should be free to express, no matter how harsh it can be. The above post is acceptable.



however even head swaps take work to do, or anything in general that required work. Mostly all creators do the same to some various degree and it really is all just an editing process, no one actually creates anything unless it is entirely from scratch. If anything, whatever is out there is just an edit(s) of something else.

Also it is important to avoid discouraging a new creator, although it is good to point out problems, telling someone that they did nothing because of a lack of experience is not constructive or helpful to the wip/release or the editor unless they actually didn't literally do anything.

Rather it should be suggested that instead just list the problems, give help on how to rectify it/them, and state how much you like or dislike something(s).

But remember, suggesting less of an attempt or even encouraging someone to quit helps absolutely no one and can even take away from mugen if that person learning is made or pressured to quit.

YoungSamurai5 wrote:

this is actually helping him for his future stuff because if someone doesnt tell him now then he will continue making the same mistakes.

This can vary from person to person. For those that are new this can overwhelm a first timer and could discourage them from making an effort all together.

Patience towards new editors is required in order to get them to wet their feet before they can learn how to swim and then later pick up diving.

It's not feasible to use the same measuring standards for experts on a beginner level editor. Someone learning how to count for the first time cannot be expected to do complex mathematics so giving heavy criticism to someone who is obviously just starting to learn would just be intimidating, inconsiderate of the inexperienced, and downright unfair.

Instead give a little time and encouraging direction until they feel ready to step up their performance. They will almost always ask for help in improving and when that time comes present them with the harder stuff. They will no doubt start to compare their work eventually to others wips and see where they fall short of skills.

SEE ABOVE RECOMMENDATIONS

...

As for veteran editors STILL doing the same mistakes even after X years!!!

Me

It's ok to heavy criticize , I should know better by now LOL

I believe criticism on a work as feedback is good,but it should be said properly and not in a rude or condecending way. Also most peoples age is stated under there avatar and i personally think that should be taken into consideration heavily aswell ie: you tell a 12 year old there work is not ok and buggy as hell and most likely you will turn them away from mugen,but you could say the exact same thing to a 20 year old and most likely it will make them try harder to fix said issues. So i think you should weigh all the factors of the creator when giving feedback. I give honest feed back but try to say it nicely to the person and always state the issues of the work in a in my opinion form.

"Your char is a shit" "Your job is trash" This no is critic, its no hard, i'ts not nothing.
lahar say "axking is complete crap sometimes his sprites look nice but his coding is godawful."

http://mugenfreeforall.com/index.php?/topic/11937-hulk-captain-america-released-by-ax-4313/

This is a good critic? Is false, the Hulk and Captain America of Ax are fun, have new stand, new attacks ... They have potential, they are a good job. The ways of these clowns (lahar and metamutant) are not correct.

Cravd say: "nice, simple and basic but excellent if hulk, new moves, move forward and back and if only this great posture." Do you notice the difference?

Personally I prefer not to post anything in multiverse to put up with clowns like these. Do not understand how there are people who can defend.

My opinion is have to bannear lahar and metamutant . People like them are useless. Moderators, canceled their accounts please

nice job bringing up a thread in ANOTHER forum, that can't affect me here that would be unprofessional of the staff.

animiraz you seem to be breaking the forum rules by constantly bashing me, I don't believe that is allowed. Secondly I know axkings past which is why i said that he does not listen to good feedback. (his link from zelda oh god was it bad) he had legit feedback and he ignored it instead basically telling them to make their own. THAT is not the correct attitude to have as for your "creations" I said I would give you feedback if you were really going to listen to it but based on your attitude I can see you do not care.

BACK ON TOPIC axking is correct in saying people can say their opinions on feedback or FACTS on feedback without feeling the need to censor themselves and I Commend him for saying that at least.

Criticism is always a matter of discussion. Could be useful most times when is followed by a good explanation, giving some details, noticing bugs and using common sense. When is like that most of people accept those comments and frequently thanks them. :suspect: Yup, of course, there are still a few that even with good words can't accept any kind of criticism, but as I said are a few.

But criticism is pretty useless when is merely a way to bother people who dislikes somebody due to personal reasons or are simple messages saying I dislike or I hate that just without any meaningful apport. That kind of comments should be warned in my opinion, but I won't say names, everyone is responsible of their comments and know pretty well when they did wrong. Administrators here are the ones who have to punish them, not me.

But is true that there is a huge variability in aging here, so, we must show more respect eachother to give a good example to the younger generations of creators. I'm the first in no harshing people ever and I always be kind with people who deserve it. I'll always try to help, cause I remember when I started in this world and luckily I knew some people who kindly help me to improve my edits and my skills, and I will never forget that.

At last, we are all in the mugen world just for fun and entertainment. So, be cool. Is that so difficult?

Amen (hahahahaha )

I think we can all learn feedback from vollzilla. His comments are always restrained and justified. There is no sense in vain to praise a person or humiliate him. In the world of Mugen many lay people who need help and support. Seeing that their creations are mixed with shit, they can simply leave the Mugen. It does not help.

animaraz wrote:

The ways of these clowns (lahar and metamutant) are not correct.

Personally I prefer not to post anything in multiverse to put up with clowns like these.

My opinion is have to bannear lahar and metamutant . People like them are useless. Moderators, canceled their accounts

Animaraz you are the only one throwing out personal insults, yet you want others banned. That's the very definition of a hypocrite.

Well, I've been a victim, I'm still not a great creator mugen, the more I try so hard, in my first edits I heard something very unpleasant, I could stop the mugen for being embarrassing, but I have a problem with the persistence I do not give up easily.

I think feedback and offense are very different things, should not be allowed to abuse anyone anywhere

Not necessarily mm. The saying "Try as I would like to be treated" then I would understand if you make offensive comments is because you like to receive offensive comments.

My freedom of expression ends where the rights of others star.

Either way the forum is not worth this kind of fight, I promise to watch more my language and form of expression and hoping that others will follow suit.

No necesariamente mm. Dice el dicho "Trata como te gustaria ser tratado" entonces yo entiendo que si tu haces comentarios ofensivos es porque te gusta recibir comentarios ofensivos.

Mi libertad de expresion termina donde empieza los derechos a los demás.

De cualquier manera el foro no merece este tipo de peleas, prometo vigilar mas mi lenguaje y forma de expresion esperando que otras personas sigan el mismo ejemplo.

that would be nice I am not personally attacking you here so show me the same courtesy thank you.

Angelus_Silverhead wrote:

I think we can all learn feedback from vollzilla. His comments are always restrained and justified. There is no sense in vain to praise a person or humiliate him. In the world of Mugen many lay people who need help and support. Seeing that their creations are mixed with shit, they can simply leave the Mugen. It does not help.

Indeed. Vol is a good mirror to look at. Im in this forum because of him and always gave me support.

My two cents:

Feedback needs to be honest, and we all are grown up so nobody needs to receive feedbacks sugar coated.

Sure, when someone says "Its a shit" its not a feedback. But "Nice char, Downloading now, OMFG its *insert your wanted char name*" aren't feedback either.

There are some common excuses. If you use any of those, you need to rethink about your "mugen carreer":

- Its a beta
- Mugen is a hobby
- if you don't like, don't download it.
- Its my style (when you don't have required sprites)
- Don't make public feedback, give it by PM.

If you use any of those above, go home, you are drunk.

Honesty is not synonymous with vulgarity. There are correct ways of saying things. You can be tough and give you an opinion valuable or insulting just for the pleasure of insulting. To me it's not an excuse, the mugen is a hobby, it's sad that for some mugen become your life and feel a god can judge so viciously selfless efforts of others.
How is it possible that good creators are forgotten once-rookies?

Many no need "mugen carreer", many have real life (job, girlfriend, school, sports)

honestidad no es sinonimo de vulgaridad. Hay maneras correctas de decir las cosas. Puedes ser duro y aportar una opinion valiosa o puedes insultar solo por el placer de insultar. Para mi no es un pretexto, el mugen es un hobby, es triste que para algunos el mugen se convierta en su vida y se sientan un dios capaz de juzgar con tanta saña los esfuerzos desinteresados de otros.
¿Como es posible que creadores buenos ya hallan olvidado que alguna vez fueron novatos?

Muchos no necesitan "una carrera en el mugen" tienen una vida real

Animarez, we have a forum rule about bringing other forum drama to this place. Please do not be asked about that again.

Locking this topic because there are numerous topics that are about to get a reminder about our #1 rule, respect at all times.