Mugen community dying and what we can do to change that

Dont be smug, we all know loganir means its his creative property. Like if he drew wonder woman fanart thats his ART using another persons creatiion. You cant take his art just because he doesnt own wonder woman, its stil theft without his permissioin.

The only way your argument makes sense is if DC claims the woner woman mugen character then you would have to ask them for permission

In my MUGEN opinion, every MUGEN community is different.  MMV has some very unique features such as all the seasonal events, MUGEN Fantasy League, Arcade Center, sprite contests, award polls,...etc.....all these have been done by volzzilla and Adminbot for MMV's sake, just wanting to get more MMV'ers to get involved.  For MUGEN making business, MMV has its own Team Members who share some similar MUGEN ideas and are willing to turn the MUGEN ideas into real MMV-branded MUGEN products.  Of course every MMV'er has his/her/its own strengths and weaknesses, just like any communities in the e-world and the real world.  Yet, it is really sad/mad to see MMV's own Team Members fighting every now and then, for some issues like MUGEN permission and personal e-feuds.  I can see there has long been many MUGEN quality and MUGEN permission problems in MMV here.  To me, the MUGEN permission problem is bigger and more serious than the MUGEN quality problem.  This shall be the top MMV priority to fix first, before trying to fix the next one.

After fixing these two (2) major MMV problems, then it shall be the time to think of some ways to promote MMV to more old & new MUGEN fans.  I have no idea about online chat as I never use any at all.  And I think MMV should have at least a Facebook/Twitter/YouTube/nicovideo/Google+/...etc...
I have found there is a Gallery forum function in the fanbb.net backend Admin control panel but it is never activated.  I need some extra time to study more fanbb.net backend Admin control panel functions though....

OK, the MMV public download web page ( http://mugenmultiverse.webstarts.com/ ) is very old and outdated, and I see it is being hosted by webstarts.com not fanbb.net, and I am not given any fanbb.net & webstarts.com accounts information about MMV so I can only do limited MMV forum works.

yolomate wrote:

Aℓίcℯ wrote:

Mistah Jorge wrote:

give a better impression of the forum in general, quality and clean, you know what i mean?

Even bug fixing character templates would probably sparkle some interest on creators. To me, quality is the most important thing!

^
This.

Another thing I almost forget, visiting other communities helps too, gather feedback/opinions, doesn't matter what perception people have about their skills, they are probably lower than they think.

So it's fine to have people that is not acquiescent towards you because they tell you things like they are, that's one reason I post my stuff nearly everywhere Mugen Guild, IMT, MFFA, MMV, MTM, MIL, etc.. (the other being potential commission work, but I digress). I don't mind my stuff being called garbage, if it's garbage then it's garbage as long as someone else is able to pin-point mistakes I missed.

I'm taking the freedom to read through several topics here just now,
I'm aware of the bad fame this place has, and from what I've read in all my time, it's not only IMT really, most mugen sites see it like a place nothing good can ever come out from.

Reading Ilusionista's topic & a few other, if people really want to improve the overall perception,  all I can say is that driving away novices & the safe place mentality doesn't help (if this place is really driving away other creators because it favourites newcomers, I don't know how much of it is true, I don't really pay attention to that)

If you drive away novices with elitism the community may not grow, but if you drive away senior creators the place can get stuck with low bar creations for the most part.

If anything, a community can keep stable by being welcoming to potential new creators not being elitist but at the same time having enough amounts of members with decent quality standards, I don't think any creator would mind if someone else take their creation and TRULY improves it after all, and not the opposite.

yep but some guys so close of mind, I work for all( you need palettes tell me, you need a idea for chat talk to me etc) some creators no put chars and only use "private" but before you see that char in a youtube video...WTF???  anyway you need palettes no problem write me ok? help you!

so the new law is everyone have to be open mind like you and your master carpa?? i know you are talking about me, now if the admin from here control you and your group "open mind" people, they will have peace....

What can we do to keep the community from dying?

Well, for one, release highly-anticipated characters like War Machine and X-23 outside of screen-packs or "exclusive games". Just a thought.

I think the biggest problem that Mugen is constantly facing is almost cyclical. From Scruffy/CVG to CC/MMV You get older or more skilled creators who slam younger or less skilled creators. Then those positions shift as people come and go.
When the former group has perfectly valid or at least manageable arguments, like permission or proper credit, there are those in that group that derail the argument by crapping on the latter group. So that these newer people tend to just take any comment however valid as being invalid.
Then you get the latter group feeling put down and told they are less cause of the gatekeeping. Some take the harsh and push through, but others leave uneducated and drained of passion. Even still others turn into trolls of the older more skilled guys, who in turn lose passion.
I figure a proper community would try to find the middle ground. Admittedly not an easy task. Mugen due to its diy nature means people are often gonna take other peoples work. Jumping into the deep end is not always preferred when building off a known commodity is easier.
Really education and calm reasoning with newer people should be in order. I'm not sure if that's possible when much of the engine is arguably built primarily off plagiarist roots. It just weird to see these kinds of arguing matches happen time and time again, on so many different forums. Deja Vu.

DukeNukem 2417 wrote:

What can we do to keep the community from dying?  

Well, for one, release highly-anticipated characters like War Machine and X-23 outside of screen-packs or "exclusive games".  Just a thought.  

I kinda argee with this and kinda dont, I have no problem with exclusive characters for a game if we can get stand alone releases after its release. Like imo RMM did it best and IMT team games, wait till your game is done, let ppl play and enjoy it and then release the characters later so ppl can mix and match and what not.

Also i dont think war machine is for a game, he is just behind a subscriber window kinda like some dlc lol

sp1r1t3d wrote:

I think the biggest problem that Mugen is constantly facing is almost cyclical. From Scruffy/CVG to CC/MMV You get older or more skilled creators who slam younger or less skilled creators. Then those positions shift as people come and go.
When the former group has perfectly valid or at least manageable arguments, like permission or proper credit, there are those in that group that derail the argument by crapping on the latter group. So that these newer people tend to just take any comment however valid as being invalid.
Then you get the latter group feeling put down and told they are less cause of the gatekeeping. Some take the harsh and push through, but others leave uneducated and drained of passion. Even still others turn into trolls of the older more skilled guys, who in turn lose passion.
I figure a proper community would try to find the middle ground. Admittedly not an easy task. Mugen due to its diy nature means people are often gonna take other peoples work. Jumping into the deep end is not always preferred when building off a known commodity is easier.
Really education and calm reasoning with newer people should be in order. I'm not sure if that's possible when much of the engine is arguably built primarily off plagiarist roots. It just weird to see these kinds of arguing matches happen time and time again, on so many different forums. Deja Vu.

In my MUGEN opinion, the experienced MUGEN fans should not look down on the inexperienced MUGEN fans.  Discouraging statements hurt so much to new comers, and sometimes to old hands too.  People with more MUGEN skills should help out those who ask for help, while the less skillful ones should respect the older ones.  On the other hand, one has to learn how to take the useful part of comments, while trying to ignore the useless aka e-trolling part of comments.  I failed to do so for long years and now trying to learn to do it rightly lately.  There should exists a "bridge" between both MUGEN youngsters and elders.  Such "MUGEN bridge" must be based on something common found in both MUGEN groups.

After all, I think MUGEN making can be largely a "puzzle construction game" -- trying to gather up pieces (raw materials like sprites and sounds), then turn them into Elecbyte's MUGEN file formats, and use Elecbyte's MUGEN "language" (mostly some trial-&-error logic and maths. values adding and changing) to make things work in Elecbyte's MUGEN engine.  MUGEN making process can certainly be "self-taught" as Elecbyte has provided enough documents and work files for one to learn from the basics.  And somehow yes, that almost all parts of MUGEN files can be copied & pasted directly, especially easy with handy tools like the Fighter Factory (heck, one can even put all MUGEN code -- AIR & CMD & CNS -- into one (1) single file like the *.def plain text file and even a *.html plain text file).  Nothing you can do to try to protect your MUGEN files, once they are published to the great Internet.  It is all up to how a MUGEN community handle things like "MUGEN permissions".  A MMV news here -- "MUGEN permissions" will be taken seriously than before, by some new MUGEN Release forums moderator(s)!

logansam wrote:

yolomate wrote:

Aℓίcℯ wrote:

Mistah Jorge wrote:

give a better impression of the forum in general, quality and clean, you know what i mean?

Even bug fixing character templates would probably sparkle some interest on creators. To me, quality is the most important thing!

^
This.

Another thing I almost forget, visiting other communities helps too, gather feedback/opinions, doesn't matter what perception people have about their skills, they are probably lower than they think.

So it's fine to have people that is not acquiescent towards you because they tell you things like they are, that's one reason I post my stuff nearly everywhere Mugen Guild, IMT, MFFA, MMV, MTM, MIL, etc.. (the other being potential commission work, but I digress). I don't mind my stuff being called garbage, if it's garbage then it's garbage as long as someone else is able to pin-point mistakes I missed.

I'm taking the freedom to read through several topics here just now,
I'm aware of the bad fame this place has, and from what I've read in all my time, it's not only IMT really, most mugen sites see it like a place nothing good can ever come out from.

Reading Ilusionista's topic & a few other, if people really want to improve the overall perception,  all I can say is that driving away novices & the safe place mentality doesn't help (if this place is really driving away other creators because it favourites newcomers, I don't know how much of it is true, I don't really pay attention to that)

If you drive away novices with elitism the community may not grow, but if you drive away senior creators the place can get stuck with low bar creations for the most part.

If anything, a community can keep stable by being welcoming to potential new creators not being elitist but at the same time having enough amounts of members with decent quality standards, I don't think any creator would mind if someone else take their creation and TRULY improves it after all, and not the opposite.

yep but some guys so close of mind, I work for all( you need palettes tell me, you need a idea for chat talk to me etc) some creators no put chars and only use "private" but before you see that char in a youtube video...WTF???  anyway you need palettes no problem write me ok? help you!

so the new law is everyone have to be open mind like you and your master carpa?? i know you are talking about me, now if the admin from here control you and your group "open mind" people, they will have  peace....

you not are THE ONLY ONE CREATOR Logansam!!!   you thought I was talking about you?? wrong!!! I talk in general!! and my master no is carpa5 is Zombiebrock! he is my master in palletes!

sp1r1t3d wrote:

I think the biggest problem that Mugen is constantly facing is almost cyclical. From Scruffy/CVG to CC/MMV You get older or more skilled creators who slam younger or less skilled creators. Then those positions shift as people come and go.
When the former group has perfectly valid or at least manageable arguments, like permission or proper credit, there are those in that group that derail the argument by crapping on the latter group. So that these newer people tend to just take any comment however valid as being invalid.
Then you get the latter group feeling put down and told they are less cause of the gatekeeping. Some take the harsh and push through, but others leave uneducated and drained of passion. Even still others turn into trolls of the older more skilled guys, who in turn lose passion.
I figure a proper community would try to find the middle ground. Admittedly not an easy task. Mugen due to its diy nature means people are often gonna take other peoples work. Jumping into the deep end is not always preferred when building off a known commodity is easier.
Really education and calm reasoning with newer people should be in order. I'm not sure if that's possible when much of the engine is arguably built primarily off plagiarist roots. It just weird to see these kinds of arguing matches happen time and time again, on so many different forums. Deja Vu.

some older members got bad education too...but talk of plagiarist yep this a circle infinite and the last part is right sp1r1t3d is infinite deja vu